Articles | Volume 4, issue 4
https://doi.org/10.5194/wcd-4-927-2023
© Author(s) 2023. This work is distributed under the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 License.
Diabatic effects on the evolution of storm tracks
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- Final revised paper (published on 03 Nov 2023)
- Preprint (discussion started on 12 Jul 2023)
Interactive discussion
Status: closed
Comment types: AC – author | RC – referee | CC – community | EC – editor | CEC – chief editor
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RC1: 'Comment on egusphere-2023-1537', Maarten Ambaum, 18 Jul 2023
- AC1: 'Reply on RC1', Andrea Marcheggiani, 17 Sep 2023
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RC2: 'Comment on egusphere-2023-1537', Anonymous Referee #2, 18 Aug 2023
- AC2: 'Reply on RC2', Andrea Marcheggiani, 17 Sep 2023
Peer review completion
AR – Author's response | RR – Referee report | ED – Editor decision | EF – Editorial file upload
AR by Andrea Marcheggiani on behalf of the Authors (19 Sep 2023)
Author's response
Author's tracked changes
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ED: Referee Nomination & Report Request started (20 Sep 2023) by Juliane Schwendike
RR by Anonymous Referee #2 (22 Sep 2023)
RR by Maarten Ambaum (25 Sep 2023)
ED: Publish subject to technical corrections (25 Sep 2023) by Juliane Schwendike
AR by Andrea Marcheggiani on behalf of the Authors (26 Sep 2023)
Author's response
Manuscript
This work addresses an important problem in atmospheric dynamics, namely the dynamical processes underlying the formation of the baroclinic zone, as diagnosed by the slope of isentropic surfaces. A new pespective is introduced by looking at the slope evolution in phase space. It is found that the upper and the lower troposphere exhibit very distinct (in some sense opposite) dynamics for the slope evolution.
My own work also looks at phase space dynamics of the storm track and it will be no surprise that I find this approach of great interest. However, the manuscript left me wondering in the end, what the real conclusion was regarding the role of diabatic effects in slope dynamics. The writing is somewhat evasive and vague at many points so it is hard to interpret what the authors are actually saying.
I would imagine that a more clearer layout of the arguments at those points should clarify sufficiently what was specifically meant. Below I comment on the manuscript in order of line number, not in order of importance.
l.12: "... rendering the phasing ..."; did you mean something like "... suggesting that this phasing is ..."; I also assume that "phasing" actually means the order in which processes occur; perhaps that would be a clearer and simpler way of putting it?
l.88 Presumably you meant "d\theta/\dz < 10^{-4}..." not "> 10^{-4}"
l.92:"... does not affect our analysis as we exclude land grid points." Given that the cold air for the all-important cold air outbreaks is sourced on the land, it seems to me that it is strange to exclude land points: as a local tendency it is perhaps not important, but as a source of required air masses it is. How is that reflected in your equations or your analysis? It seems to me that the anomalously high diabatic cooling over land is absolutely crucial in providing a source of the gradient in the baroclinic zone.
Fig 1: Perhaps label the figures which are free troposphere and which are lower troposphere?
Also: you use the word "hatching" in this figure and figure 9, but you actually show a stippling. (I thought I'd check the dictionary on my computer, just to be sure. This is the entry: "hatching | ˈhatʃɪŋ | noun [mass noun] (in fine art and technical drawing) shading with closely drawn parallel lines: the miniaturist's use of hatching and stippling.")
l.132: "... mainly due to orographic effects advected ..." I do not know what the process is that you are describing. Please be specific what you actually mean. How does orography swap the sign of these effects, and how does this advection work?
Fig.2: Looking at the lower panel, it would be of interest to add a third line indicating "DIAB + TILT"; it is after all the lack of compensation between those two terms that provides the tendency for the slope. In that respect, could you please comment, perhaps somewhere around l. 135, whether the IADV term is smaller than the DIAB + TILT combination? If DIAB and TILT are largely compensating each other then their individual magnitudes do not matter that much. It seems to me that the mismatch between DIAB and TILT is the crucial variable. (Of course, the phase space analysis is diagnosing that mismatch in detail.)
Fig.3: This is a crucial figure, but it is also very dense and hard to read. Some separate comments:
l.176-179: I found this a very confusing bit. Are you describing your phase space portraits or are you actually speculating on mechanisms? What do you mean by “driving”: a description of what happens in the figures, or some causal mechanism? If a physical mechanism, you would need to be more specific: what processes are actually happening? If describing the figure, perhaps use a different word to "driving". Perhaps "leading"?
l.182: "...driving storm development": DIAB is a tendency for isentropic slopes, not for storm development.
l.200: Just a personal comment regarding style which, obviously, you may completely ignore. This paper is not easy to follow because of all the shorthand notation: TILT DIAB IADV KOE GSE ENP ENA TCWV CAO, …Please consider writing this stuff out in the text: there is no gain in shortening it, and it is a real pain to follow the text when using all this shorthand. I know it is a device used by many authors, but I believe that a paper should be as easy as possible to follow; Mike Mcintyre would agree with me on that. Do you really want readers to be trying to decipher what a CAO over the KOE is?
l.204: "TILT follows the advancing cold air front, while DIAB intensifies further upstream.": It really would help if you explained these things a bit more specifically: why/how does TILT "follow" the advancing cold air? It is often not clear whether you are trying to describe the plots or to explain the plots. Could a schematic help?
And I remain somewhat puzzled: if "TILT follows the advancing cold air front" would this then not be manifested in the IADV term? I probably misinterpret the physical processes underlying these two terms, but it surely is an indication that it is not obvious what you are actually saying here.
l.218: "... the suppression of cyclonic activity, consistent with a weaker slope.": I am not sure what you are saying here: a weaker slope corresponds to reduced baroclinic growth. This is not obviously the same as saying that a suppressed cyclonic activity is consistent with a weaker slope. What do you mean with “suppression” anyway? Perhaps you simply meant “represent the anomalously low cyclonic activity…”?
l.245: What is the purpose of the hyphens around "phases" Are they the opposing phases of the Rossby wave or not? (I think they are.)
l.246: "... constitute a defining feature ..." : I do not know what this means. Can you be more specific? In what sense is it a “defining” feature? With this phrase it certainly doesn't sound like you managed to add physical understanding to the role of diabatic effects in the evolution of the strom track, which is probably underselling the results presented.
l.262: "... of moisture availability": Moisture availability seems to imply that DIAB is a moisture limited process. Do you have evidence for that, or do you mean something else?
l.272: "neither": Double negative; it needs to be "either".
l.273: "... actually condition DIAB and TILT": what do you mean with the verb "condition"?
l.275: " driving": “Driving” or “leading” (as in “leading in time”)? Driving seems to imply a causal effect; if so, you need to explain how this causality works. The rest of the sentence seems to just describe the figure, but I think you developed a much clearer physical picture of why DIAB leads TILT in this case.
l.279-281 "... suggesting that DIAB in the free troposphere is a distinctive aspect of the evolution of storm tracks, while the development and progression of anomalies in the composites for the near-surface are more contingent to the specific spatial domain considered.": There are many words here, but it is not obvious what is actually said. Most people would agree, without any hesitation, that diabatic effects play an important part in the evolution of storm tracks (I am not sure what a “distinct aspect” is --distinct from what?). I also do not understand the final part of this very long sentence. What are you trying to say?
To conclude, after reading this, it is not obvious what the main take-home message is of the paper. I think it is the distinct dynamics between the two altitudes. My take on it is that TILT and DIAB mostly compensate on average, but at lower levels TILT leads DIAB due to the low level cold air advection being followed by sensible heat fluxes, while at higher levels DIAB leads TILT because the forced latent heat release produces some counteracting secondary circulation. Perhaps I misread the gist of the paper, but I think that it should be more clearly laid out what this take-home message is.